Few people can/ or want to see beyond the immediate benefits of their life. All that matters is- what’s in it for me. Some selfish people also give just because they want to leave a “legacy”. The people that are lesser known as per your example above can be very good examples of people who sacrifice without declaring it to the world; nor do they expect compensation or glory for it. Life is a balance and in order to give we also need to be renewed. Being a college teacher is great. Congrats!

From reading what you have said in posts above, it appears that you may have a Catholic background but you have also been reading on a lot of eastern philosophies lately. Have you read the writings of St John of the Cross? It’s an interesting read. Quite mystical in nature and even if you do not associate- if nothing else, its food for thought.

I am happy to know you are doing alright.

Cheers!

you are one “disturbed” person… seek help from professionals.. you’re anger towards that person will only eat away inside of you. the more you will become like that person.

True self-sacrifice will almost always bring positive repercussions; that’s a given. Unlike some celebrities who spend money purely for the media coverage.

You’re saying self-sacrifice isn’t self-sacrifice because of its after-effect. One reason people sacrifice themselves is because they want another person to be happy because if that person is happy, they’ll be happy as well.

Then again, not all sacrifices end in death, which is better for the one who sacrifices and worse for your argument.

A mother sacrificing herself for the life of her baby; is she giving birth because she doesn’t want to suffer or because she wants her baby to live? Different “mothers” will answer differently. Stop dwelling on the crappy side of people and be a little more optimistic.

I have been reading again the posts I’ve made in this thread.. Wow! That’s the first thing I can say. It’s been over a year already. Allow me to laugh, okay? Hahahahahahaha!

Anyway, I am doing soooo great and fine, that I feel good and right. And it’s funny how I was able to write those things. Most of them, if not all, still stands true, but I have changed how I perceive those actions and react to them. I am happy now.. but a different kind of happiness.

Self-sacrifice is a difficult thing to understand. It sort of exists and does not exist at the same time–depends on who’s viewing it. When one has reached a certain level of self-actualization, one will not “care” anymore how one’s self-sacrifice benefits one’s self. It is for the Will of the Divine. I am not talking about some god of religion here. Just something mystical in essence. It is being mentioned in all esoteric teachings, like Sufism, Esoteric Christianity, Theosophy, Kabbalah, Buddhism, Yoga.

The way I see it now–everyone is suffering. Its so sad really. I suffered before, and I continue to bear my sufferings, but everyone is suffering even more than I am. I don’t “self-sacrifice” myself anymore like I used to, its very very psychologically disturbing, but I still continue to help in the means that I can. And I’ve become a college teacher. And its fun! Really loads of fun! Hehehe.

Thank you Alex and Maria for your responses over a year ago.

This is what you left out from your source (Wikipedia), along with a few other words.

“Self-sacrifice may also be more broadly defined as selflessness, or the readiness to inflict pain upon yourself to save others; it is this definition which, for example, Leo Tolstoy embraced and espoused.”

You’re not talking about selfless self-sacrifice, which you believe doesn’t exist in selfless form.

It says nothing about any benefits to oneself. You act, put your life, well-being, and/or happiness on the line, someone benefits; that’s self-sacrifice. How others view it is another story entirely. If anything, you’re creating a sub-section of the word; feel free to name it.

Easier said than done.. true, i can never control other people’s actions, i just wish “someone” higher would “enlighten” them to do something about what they are currently doing.. I cant see how I can control how I perceive those actions though.. no matter how I see it, I am still the one ending up suffering.. how I react? I could retaliate, what’s been done to me, I should and can do rightfully back, right, as the law of karma states.. but if i do that, there’d be no end or peaceful resolution. I can pretend I’m not affected, I can pretend I’m not hurt, I can psychologically twist my mind and “detach”, but it still there the hurt.. as the song goes, “yeah, there will be an answer, let it be, let it be..” i hold on to that, and just sing to myself to let it be.. accept, sacrifice one’s self.. because people are stubborn..

i prayed i dont want this anymore.. i dont want to be the one on the line anymore.. but im beginning to accept as well to just let it be.. im confused.. i just want peace within.. and take all these troubles inside away..

self-sacrifice in a sense is free-will, but not entirely one’s own will. one’s own will is selfish, if i had a choice, i’d eliminate all those who have caused me such pain and suffering.. i am “forced” to accept things I did not want to accept, i could choose to really fight and destroy them all, because i have a choice.. but that wouldn’t bring about peace.. this self-sacrifice i am talking about doesn’t necessarily make one happy at all.. in fact, it makes one very sad and very alone.. so very very alone..

I personally go to visit people who are terminally ill and are at the end of their life. I sit with them, read with them, spend time with them, talk etc. This is on a volunteer basis. I don’t even necessarily think that this is a self-sacrifice. There are many volunteers who would be happy to see babies in need- but life has a beginning and an end. I believe that the end is just as valuable and to be just as respected and honored. But that’s just a personal belief. It’s not something that I am being forced to do and I am also not doing it at the cost of my happiness. I give valuable time that I could use to do other things but I am not resentful of that.

In regards to your comment “the self-sacrifice i am going thru is adjusting and bearing the mistakes of others… having to suffer because of their “sins”. I would say that you can’t control other people actions but you can control how you percieve those actions as well as how you react to them.

Good luck in your journey.

if i am so good, why am i so alone?!?!!!!!

i don’t want to be alone anymore… i’m crying reading your reply..
it’s lonely having this “chiseled” character…

…

for charity, i dont see that as self-sacrifice.. people want to do charity because they feel good giving, and giving anonymously, there’s a sense of mystery.. and its always exciting to be in the mystery from others.. letting people guess who gave what to whom..

the self-sacrifice i am going thru is adjusting and bearing the mistakes of others… having to suffer because of their “sins”.. i hate this already, i always am the one sufferring.. i dont have a messianic complex, im just in a cruel situation where im always the one suffering for other people’s mistakes.. i have to humble myself because if i don’t, the world around me as i know it might go to hell or utter chaos.. i dont want this life anymore.. let somebody else be the sacrifice.. its so alone……

If you are a slave, or really “forced”, than it’s not exactly self-sacrifice — it’s not free will. If you choose to do it, than some part of you, whether you like it or not, makes the choice that you WANT.

The reason I say self-sacrifice doesn’t exist is because we’re always making a choice of what we want, even if it completely doesn’t seem that way. Perhaps you want to take care of family, and it seems like self-sacrifice, but if you didn’t take care of them you could be happy but feel very guilty for abandoning them. The fact that you are going through hardship to avoid guilt is the reason why it’s not self-sacrifice.

You can choose to be unreasonable, and in the face of adversity, create happiness in your life. To just take pleasure in what you’re doing because clearly it’s chiseling your character and making you a better person for it. No one said it’s easy to do the right thing, and not all great people are repaid for what they’ve done (not by others at least), but to take pleasure in every breath you take transcends needing repayment. The life is yours now, to enjoy, and irregardless of God or religion or whatever other stigmas you are throwing out there, you can be happy.

One of the greatest levels of charity is to give to people without them knowing who gave. This way they aren’t shamed by it. A higher level of charity is to give without knowing who you are giving to, because giving is an awesome act, and it shouldn’t be about the who, and you shouldn’t need any compensation. When you can give without this compensation, you have chiseled your character to the next level.

Life is really all about self-improvement, in all facets of life. When we stop moving we die. So don’t give up, keep chiseling away, and become the best you that you can be. Enjoy life right now.

Truly unfortunate.. I don’t want to hate myself.. I like who I am without the self-sacrifice. I’m smart, witty, fun-loving, outgoing, kind, generous, youthful, and i don’t even have an ugly face. Fortunately though, I’m still healthy, I haven’t been sick in awhile.. and I’m still sane to the general public.

I agree when you say that I have been self-sacrificing too much, and most of it was “forced” upon me. I am also gullible and naive to my own disadvantage. Sometimes, I believe too much in the goodness of people when they are in reality very selfish after all… because of this, I have developed a keen sense of detecting people’s intentions before they go out in the open. But I’m still gullible, especially to the people I “love”, because I don’t do analysis or check ups on them, little do I know that later I will be betrayed or something like that. Yet I still go on, in the hope that they might change hearts and not do the bad thing in the end. Self-sacrifice… giving up myself for the ones i love.. i hope they’re happy, because i’m not..

thank you, i understand now what u mean by non-harmful things. i self-sacrifice and it is harmful to my psychological health. maybe thats why im unhappy…

i read a book, i watch a cartoon show that makes me laugh, i go into photography, i meet people with similar interests, i can figure out a lot in less time than most people can, i can “adjust” easily to other people’s interests, so basically, i can get along with whom anybody i want to.. from talking to a prince down to being silly with a pauper. i’ve even tried talking to a crazy man down the street whom everyone seems to abhor and stay away from. 1) he smells so bad, he’s all in grease and dirt, 2) he acts rather unpredictable, sometimes hitting on cars every now and then.. yet for some reason i cannot explain, i understand him, and we talk.. i give him some spare change to buy food, i dont call this self-sacrifice coz it makes me happy.. what im trying to say is, i strive to do things to make me happy..

on the self-sacrifice part, gosh i have an idea of god that i hate him/her or whatever it is so much, because this self-sacrifice sucks like shit. it sucks the void or life out of me everytime it happens, and to the outside world, it would really seem like the one you’re referring to, people would thank me, oh ur so good, oh ur so noble, but honestly, i dont care, coz im not happy.. sometimes, i wonder what if i did the non-self-sacrifice, and did the “selfish” thing instead, im sure it will make me happy, great satisfaction, but on the point of making the choice… i end up doing the “self-sacrifice” one. u cant imagine how black and dark the void one feels when i end up this way.. the closest i could describe is like in that movie the green mile, where the fat guy sucks up the “evil” from someone.. everyone seems to feel better, but the fat guy suffers like hell.. (im not fat, btw..)

u know a secret i’ve managed to figure out all these years.. its a lot like this thread, no such thing as self-sacrifice.. well, love never heals.. everyone thinks that love heals, hell no, it never heals.. people believe that god loves them, or jesus or buddha, or allah, the universe, its all full of crap. love makes this world crazy.. love caters to what one “wants” to feel and hear, that’s the greatest illusion in this world. what truly heals, from this self-sacrifice which i seem to survive every now and then thankfully, is when the truth comes to me. that is probably the only consolation i get. the truth. it makes me feel less alone, and seems to help the pain inside. its ugly, the truth, and most people would rather buy into this “love” than face the truth.. but then again, what good is the truth if ur the only one who seems to know.. nobody else seems to believe.. so it still sucks this self-sacrifice.. it exists, and i hope i find someone out there who is doing it also..

thank u for ur reply.. i appreciate it a lot..

i am an example of self-sacrifice.. and i dont feel good about it. in fact, i hate myself, and im not happy. but i have chosen to sacrifice myself for others, and i hope they are happy about it, because im not. sometimes, i do wish to be acknowledged, but it seems that i’m not being acknowledged at all, never was, and never will. i feel alone in this world because i haven’t seen anyone around who has done “true” self-sacrifice as i have been doing…

its insane, and it will drive u nuts.. i dont even know if it is worth feeling good for being right.. it sucks.. it hurts all the time.. i dont like pain, and as much as it hurts, i want it all to go away.. sometimes, i wish id die, and on a couple of occasions, i tried to take my life away, in the hope that i wont be suffering in this life anymore constantly self-sacrificing myself for others.

in a way, you are correct though, because i haven’t seen anyone around showing true sacrifice. they always have something in return as a consolation for their sacrifice. but i, on the other hand, it sucks. where is the consolation? where is the feeling good or feeling right? i wish i would stop self-sacrificing already..

The underlying theme is we do what makes us feel good. We do what we can live with after it’s done (if we think it through that far). Or, if we can’t live with it after, we feel guilt over it, which feels better than pretending we don’t care.

Once again, we choose what makes us feel good, versus what makes us feel bad.

I’m not saying love is not powerful, it certainly is, it can move move mountains, destroy kingdoms, create homes, lives… it can serve as a very powerful incentive for people to do something that feels good.

I have very recently come to realize that most people don’t believe that. Nevertheless because one hasn’t experienced the desire of pure self-sacrifice nor comprehend the logic behind it, does not mean that it does not exist.

Google “reciprocal altruism” and “evolutionary psychology”. Your answers are there.