AlexShalman.comPractical Personal Development

I have one friend who loved it, and a couple of friends who hated it. My boyfriend used to work with a guy who lost his job and marriage because he became so obsessed with it. My general impression of it is that it’s a multi-level marketing scheme that uses very aggressive tactics to recruit people. But I’ve never been, so what do I know.

Interesting post, Alex. This sounds like a unique experience; it’d be cool to read about. I’ve never heard of it berfore!

Have a good one,
Chaz

I’m not sure if it’s really about loving or hating it, that’s all up to the individual. The point of the forum is to experience a transformation, of which I’ll write more about at a later time. I want to make sure I get plenty of rest tonight, like 7 hours, so I can be fully alert. Despite some people’s belief, Landmark doesn’t do sleep deprivation.

I’m also unsure of how multi-level marketing applies to Landmark. You don’t get any affiliate sales, or commission, for enrolling someone into the forum. You merely get the satisfaction of knowing that you gave them an opportunity to learn something amazing, that you believe in. However, if it does help to think of it as a business, it certainly is one. You pay for a service, you get a service. How much value would someone put on this experience? That’s all subjective. Personally, I think what they charge is very reasonable. I’m doing it a second time, because it had such great benefits the first time. I recommend to my friends and family, because I stand behind it.

Update: I went to sleep thinking about this comment, and when I woke up I thought about it in the shower. It occurred to be that you said he lost his job and marriage because he was obsessed with the landmark forum. That’s a very subjective thing to say, don’t you think? It might be very much true, but there are a million other things that could have been the cause of him losing his job or his marriage. Try on, he left his job and marriage because he discovered that neither was fulfilling or he lacked passion in those two areas of his life. Try on, his relationship with his job, and with his marriage was already so far gone, so nothing short of a miracle would have saved either. I don’t know, there’s plenty of ways this could have happened. Just don’t think it matters.

I was given the “gift” of the Landmark Forum. From the minute I signed up, my life went downhill, lost my job, lost love, etc. Anyways, my friend was very insistent that I go and I did. To sum it all up, you get absolutely nothing out if it that you do not already know. Just like any self help or positive seminar, they change verbatim to suit their syllabus. Like Landmark, words like integrity and enroll play heavily in their mantra. The first 3 days are a grueling 13 hour marathon of B.S. I cannot speak of the remainder 5 hours because I left. During these 39 hours, the only valuable time spent on learning anything or “breakthroughs” equates to about 4 total hours. The rest of the time is listening to various people tell their personal stories of pain and overcoming. It wasn’t what actually happened but it was their “story”.

The speaker seemed to badger and create hysteria for one woman and the supervisor pocketed $10 bill I had found in the room instead of making a announcement. Meanwhile I kept hearing about “integrity and honesty”. This whole experience was more a torture than education. It only teaches you what you already know but your ego has seemed to block. Simply be careful if you are weak minded or at wits end Just like everything else, you will think exactly how they tell you how to think.

A very pricey lesson that life can only teach.

Mr. Shadow, you seem to have an interesting way of looking at life that involves the lack of taking responsibility for your own life. You are saying that the minute you signed up, through some magic force, your life started to fall apart. You somehow magically lost your job, your love, etc. because of the fact that you signed a piece of paper, to take a course, rather than the cause of these events being you, the person you were being, or any other number of factors that had nothing to do with landmark. It’s YOUR ‘story’.

During the first day they tell you that they won’t tell you anything you don’t already know. This isn’t a hidden concept. However, the way they present all this information that you already know, is in such a format, that it gives you access to a paradigm which you can decide to use, or decide not to use, at any point in your life. If there is anything that doesn’t suit you, or isn’t of high value, within the landmark forum curriculum, you can easily decide not to apply it to your life. Just the same, if there is a gem of great value in the forum, it is your responsibility to yourself to take it and run with it.

It’s natural to not be in love with the forum, as you seem to be (well, more in hate than not in love), because of the nature of the course. It brings forth some negative things about yourself, and welcomes you to consider that you are responsible for your life, instead of being a victim of circumstance. It’s natural to hate someone that tell you you are responsible for your misery (and also your happiness), so you are the one that’s going to have to pull yourself out of it.

I wasn’t in your forum, and I don’t know what the speaker/participant interaction was like in order to even try and explain what you experienced. This goes for the supervisor too. People will be people, and will tend to do what it is that they do. After landmark, if you payed attention, and you stayed till the end, you gain the ability to use a tool, whenever you decide to. If there was a sort of dishonesty in a person (supervisor in this case), or reason that you deemed less than pure and honorable, than it is a shame you associated it with the organization as a whole. Perhaps you could appreciate that somehow one bad apple could taint an image, or how what you saw might be different from what really happened.

My personal experience with the landmark forum is quite different from yours. The people, including myself, that have gone through the landmark forum curriculum, have emerged on the other side with an amazing new ability/experience, feeling great about the whole process. Not to say that your experience is wrong. It is what it is. It just seems like you are blaming instead of taking responsibility. I can’t see that as a healthy way of dealing with any situation. However, I might be wrong, I often am.

All I have to say is that my roomate is a LF member. She is DEEPLY involved in it, and is constantly trying to get me to join. I’ve known her for about 5 years. She was always a nice girl to be around. Since she’s joined, during a period of emotional vulnerability, she’s changed into a completely different person. She’s self centered, arrogant, and constantly spouts LF lingo and thinks that all the world problems will be solved if we would all join up. She has spoken of the pressure and psychological bullying employed during the forum to encourage attendees to sign up others. Frankly, she’s turned into a total A Hole.

Any interest i might have had in attending has gone since i’ve direct experience of knowing someone involved with this dreadful group.

Sorry to hear about your negative experience. I agree that pressure is not a good way to enroll someone into anything. The point of landmark isn’t to bully, force, or trick anyone into joining. Actually, it’s not really about getting others to join. It’s more about being totally happy with who you are, who the people around you are, and than creating a great life for yourself. When you get such great things out of Landmark, you definitely want to share that with people, and have them join, but it’s not necessary.

I would think that she’s being the opposite of selfish, by letting you know about it, but possibly taking the wrong approach in her sharing.

do these people really know what being a “good person” really is? Who can really define that and how would they know what it is? If they want people to be happy with themselves, let them be themselves. Dont tell them who they should be and what they should think. I think this Landmark forum is total B.S. they just want your money. Oh and the people that work there are all volunteers, so why is it so expensive? Its a total scam, i feel bad for people who fell victim to this nonsense. I guess it’s easier to get people’s money when they’re brainwashed.

I think as humans we each “know” what a good person is from a moral standpoint. Even if you aren’t religious you can turn to the commandments for an idea. You know, be kind, loving, compassionate, don’t steal, be honest, don’t kill… that covers the basics.

Landmark isn’t as much about telling you what you should be, or how to live you life as much as it is about helping you realize that whoever you already are is extraordinary. They allow you to have another outlook, if you choose, to see that you are capable of anything, and that your past doesn’t have to control your future. It’s just an option they give you, they don’t brainwash you into following it.

Not everyone that works at landmark is a volunteer. The landmark forum leaders are paid. They receive years of training, and they’re pretty good at what they do. You also have to account for the cost of the facilities, the transportation costs, communication fees, etc. Many of the forum leaders are successful people in terms of having a lot of money. The salary they make as a forum leader is that of a middle school teacher. They aren’t doing it for the money. They are giving up a pretty big chunk of their life, and family life, etc. because they believe in this cause.

All the other people that volunteer give up a few hours, or some weekends, and they’re awesome for that, but they all have other jobs to support themselves. The price you pay for the knowledge you get it more than worth it. I can attest to that.

Question:

Landmark Forum Leaders are amazing and dedicated people. I’m curious as to their salary. I understand they make moderate salaries, do you know how much?

I’ve been told it’s the equivalent of a middle school teacher.

The Landmark Forum is actually a pretty cheap program, and if you really do the math, you’ll realize no one is making a fortune on this. Not that I would mind if they did, actually. I was a pretty selfish, self-absorbed person, and during the forum was really the first time where I truly feel like I cared about people besides my family. Since I did it I’ve gotten involved in the world at large via charities, politics, etc., really for the first time. I fight with my family a lot less. I think the biggest thing I took from it is that my own petty problems weren’t as important as I thought they were, and that being interested in other people has life be much more fulfilling than being interested in my own neuroses. We all kind of know this, I think, but usually don’t live it. That’s my two cents.

That’s great Jake, it seems like you got a big chunk of life out of your participation in the landmark forum! I think that realization alone was worth the time spent at the forum, times alot!

Best 500 bucks I ever spent. It took my family and friends a long time to convince me to go, but I realised why when it turned out to be nothing like I expected. They don’t “tell” you want to do or think, they simply give you some abstract distinctions and invite you to look at them in the context of your own life. Naturally, a lot of what you see isn’t pretty, and that’s why a lot of people are passionately against it. But if you push through you see things that truly transform your view of life and your understanding of the world. I would have paid the fee for the clarity of mind alone!

A tip for graduates: watch The Matrix and see how many Landmark distinctions you can spot.

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Sorry, can’t help you with that trip. =)

Hello my friends

Nothing fills my craving for dadaism like a little Russian spam…

Greetings. I just took the Landmark Forum this weekend, (Apr 18-20+Tues nite). I am in my 50′s and have been a teacher for 28 years. I have an Ma in Ed and an Ma in Waldorf education. I have participated in starting four schools in my career. I am currently teaching in the public school system. If you are not familiar with Anthroposophy, (the body of knowledge underlying Waldorf Education, Anthroposophical medicine, Eurythmy, Bio-Dynamic gardening and more), then you probably have not heard of Rudolf Steiner. This prodigious scholar/initiate communicated through his direct insight an unbelievable amount of substantive knowledge on almost every imaginable area of life. When quoted out of context this late 1800′s-early 1900′s seer rings like a writer of science fiction, yet the fruits of Anthroposophy constitute the most enlivening and beautiful schools, gardens, and honest, caring, down to earth people I have ever encountered. During my forum I found a total lack of the rich and warm textures, colors and compassionate inquiry I was used to in the Waldorf world. I also encountered a lack of any communications honoring any source energies other than the “Landmark Forum” used over and over again like a godlike mantra. This said, I was totally amazed to watch the group leader guide 150+ people to critical understandings of our every day dishonesty in the ways we view and make decisions in life. I admit to initial skepticism around “recruiting” (and moneymaking off of troubled people), but it soon became clear that this was not the Jerry Springer show. To my left was a very well known opera tenor, to my right a partner in a multi-million $ business. Obviously wealthy students sat next to people having a much rougher time in life; liberals next to staunch republicans, artists next to machinists, etc. etc. Not only were the insights about the “rackets we run” on ourselves and others incredibly revealing, but the understanding of the difference between trying to change and simply “transforming”, truly empowering. I left after one weekend having made favorable and healing contact with my ex-wife, a renewed friendship I had let drop for years and a conversation with my mother that left us both in happy tears. ( By the way I thought I had been getting along with my mother just fine.) Today, Monday, I feel exhilarated and exhausted. The training was tough and long and at times distasteful. Rarely does one encounter any form of workshop in today’s world that is this demanding. The group leader was in tight control and pushed everyone who was willing to respond, (you never have to if you don’t want to), right to the place where they could see for themselves the inauthenticity of their answer or comment. If the answer was authentic the leader would say”Got it!, Thank you” and that was it. I witnessed lots of struggling and grasping for comprehension by myself and the other participants but never witnessed any behaviors by the group leader that crossed the line of respect and sincere caring. I left the forum with true insight on the nature of transformation and specific skills to truly bring about new possibilities in all areas of my life. These aren’t just words, I can feel the personal power involved. Other people at home and work have already commented favorably on differences they are noting. Here is the thing that troubles me. I believe everything has a spiritual source in this world, or more to the point, we all are spiritual energy with alignments to certain beings or energies. Finding out today on the net that Landmark Education started with Werner Erhard and EST was very disconcerting. I don’t really want to be connected to anything this man sourced in and am highly distrustful of such powerful, luciferic, deceitful leaders. I am actually in quite a quandry about this. I trust the tools I have been given but there is a slightly “godlike” euphoria that pervades many of the recipients of these teachings. I know this sounds paranoid, but when you couple this with the push, push, push attitude of signing everyone up its a little scary. I am going to complete my last night Tuesday but will probably take a break after that and see how it all manifests in my daily life.

I’m glad to see you got a lot out of the forum. I wouldn’t worry too much about subscribing to some evil force. Just take the tools and use them.

If you look at it from the perspective of Landmark Education you can see why they need to push people to sign up. They have a goal, 2020, and they want to stick to it.

I can understand how Landmark Education goes directly against other beliefs. I wouldn’t let that scare you though. It’s just one more paradigm to look at life with. Pick the one that suits you best.

Alex, thanks for the feedback, it sounds reasonable and I am already, today, much more relaxed about the possible “evils” and still feeling the strength of the tools I have been given. If I keep feeling the way I do today I will probably take the advanced course in July. i am out of the loop on the 2020. Can you explain this further? Is this an “end times” kind of reality or simply a chronological goal? Thanks.

It’s a landmark education goal. When a certain percentage of people in an area begin to experience a certain reality then the rest of the population follows. In a small town in Canada there are enough people that have taken the landmark forum so that the rest of the town uses Landmark terminology. On a given day you can go to a bar, hear someone complaining to the bartender, and have the bartender say “get off it, it’s just a racket”. Landmark terms.

The goal of 2020 is to reach that tipping point percentage for the planet. Pretty ambitious goal!

Got it. Hundredth monkey. I’m running another racket here in my mind now. When I was taking the forum I said to myself, “They could be pushing this like a pyramid scheme or, on the other hand, they could be pushing this because when a certain % of the populatiuon gets this – the world change; we see through the “rackets” and start behaving authentically. Here’s my racket. If something is so powerful that it changes the world it becomes the most powerful energy in the world. The distinction between educational tool and spiritual reality disappears. The world owes its magnificent reality to “Landmark Education” and the being(s) who created it. That’s a lot of power. The prophecy of the antichrist, whose entity is on the earth right now, is that this being or beingness appears saviour-like and is treasured by the entire world but is a false path. Love is the center of the universe. I have not so far seen Landmark acknowledge that what really works there is their amazing ability to place people in the moment and truly experience love. In the beginning was the word, the Logos, the Loving Christ. Landmark is a path to this reality not the reality itself. Is this distinction made down the road in the advanced course?

I’m going to get back to you on what happens in the advanced course. However, I would do just as you said, use landmark as a tool to get whatever it is that you want out of life. There’s no magic, no secret formula, and frankly I don’t think Landmark has said anything I haven’t heard elsewhere in some shape or form. It just defines things for you, puts them in a neat package, delivers the information to you in a quick weekend burst. This package makes sense, you really understand that concepts, and you have the option to integrate them into your life if you so choose.

They purposely stay away from religious/spiritual stuff. I’m assuming it’s because they want to be accessible to all people without imposing on their personal believes. People from all walks of life are welcome. Everyone deserves to participate.

I’m starting a club next semester at the local college and already people are asking me if it’s going to have a spiritual lean. I’m going to stay away from that stuff because I would rather have this personal development club accessable to more people. If I wanted to make a narrow niche religion club I would. If I wanted a medititation club I’d do that. I guess it really depends on what you want your focus to be, and the landmark focus is the world.

If you want to use the distinctions you got from landmark to live a love centered life I think everyone at landmark would be very happy for you. I think that’s a big part of landmark. I remember Susan Rink, my Landmark Forum leader saying that if the only thing we get out of the weekend is the distinction to create an awesome relationship within our own family than that’s mission accomplished. Some people might want to make a huge change within the entire world. They’ll use the tools however they see fit.

Alex, thanks for all your sincere comments and feedback. I “graduated” last night and it felt great. I realize I am waging my own little head battles, comparing other powerful insights and spiritual teachings with what I have been given from Landmark education. I believe what you said about using the tools to create authentic possibilities in my life is great advice. I’m sure glad you have this blog and shared with me the 2020 goal because Tuesday night was a hard sell. Your information gave me a framework to understand the intention of Landmark to reach as many people as possible and transform as many lives as possible as quickly as can be done. I am sure there is a $$ element also, after all, it is a for profit business. 70,000 people took the forum last year at $500 each, that’s $35,000,000 and there are many, many more Landmark Education programs. The actual truth for me is that for a very reasonable cost I received some powerful tools for the game of living life. I saw on my surfing this morning that there is a dynamic, new documentary coming out in May about Werner Erhard’s life titled “Transformation”. Should be worth watching. Thanks for your good work Alex, adios.

The Forum is a racket that exists to perpetuate itself.

Based upon the comments I’m reading here, it’s the same crap that I wasted my time and money on 20 years ago. The folks at the NJ Forum center wanted me to “assist” in recruiting new members constantly, and spend lots of time in seminars and increasingly expensive courses. Of course, the old line was “you’ll get your life out of this!” As an aspiring singer and psychologist, I never understood how “enrolling” people in the Forum created the “possibility” of my achieving those goals. After all, music and grad school are time and effort-intensive.

When I dumped that group after a year and changed my phone number, I “got my life”, and guess what – away from the Forum, I had time start singing professionally and now work with 2 busy music groups, I earned my MA in Mental Health Counseling, I began a healthy and happy relationship with the man of my dreams (getting married next year), and found the time to work with survivors of domestic violence – a cause about which I am passionate.

Please don’t mistake my comments for bitterness – I’m actually thankful for the one BIG lesson the Forum has taught me – if you want to “get your life” you have to just get out there and DO IT. And that’s what I have done.

How its going?

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I’ve recently joined and wanted to introduce myself

Hey dman,

Nice to meet you!

Is this gonna end someday??

obstruction start usage, notional.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JC9wPGvYM8

some of them are not bad but… internet is crazy